Frustration is the feeling of learning something.

[arisha]

Some days the only reason I post is because I notice I have been completely knocked off of athena_crikey's friends page. xD;

So today I was thinking about my high school language classes, and some of the weird things we were taught that I would do my very best to teach much more better, were I ever to become a high school language teacher.

Spanish: Stem-Changing Verbs
As much as I adored the teacher I had for Spanish 11, 12 and AP, taking her class was somewhat of an adventure. For example, one day, halfway through class, she decided I had missed a test and was going to write it RIGHT NOW. As I was the most hardcore Spanish 12 student you ever did see (99% on the provincial exam and a 4 on the AP exam, if I may brag for just a moment about my only bragable accomplishments so far), I was able to write it and do just fine on it, but at the same time ... what??? And that's pretty much how she taught us stem-changing verbs. One day, halfway through class, she decided it was time to tell us about their existence. And so she did. And then we moved on.

Hopefully this is not a common experience in high school Spanish classes, because dude. It's kind of important, don't you think? hahaha I love that I wrote the Spanish AP exam not even really understanding this stuff. xDDD; And yet I got a 4, and that's just how hardcore I am. <3

Spanish: "Me Gusta"
"Me gusta" does NOT equal "I like" and yet that's how we were taught it, and I strongly suspect this is how it is taught in most high school Spanish classes. And don't get me wrong, I can definitely see why it's done this way. "Me" is a direct object pronoun, and "me gusta" seems to usually be taught very early in Spanish classes, long before students have to deal with the more nitty gritty bits of grammar. Also, I had the rowdiest classmates my first year of Spanish, and I don't doubt for a moment that teaching "gustar" as "to please" would have caused giggles and comments galore. But I still think it's wrong to teach it wrong! I mean, oh man, all the problems my classmates were having with "me gusta" even into Spanish 12, it was ridiculous, and could've perhaps been prevented by better explaining the grammar of the phrase, or maybe even going so far as to not teach it at all until it's time to learn about direct object pronouns.

(Meanwhile there are kids like me who go home and look all this stuff up. The Internet was willing to teach me about direct object pronouns even when my teacher wasn't! xD; )

French: Preceding Direct Object
I know athena_crikey has heard me rant on this subject before, way back in grade 12 when I began to decide exactly how awesome a language teacher I would be. xD But man, I still can't get over this one! As Language Guide tells us, The past participle of the passé composé will always reflect the gender and number of a preceding direct object. Were we taught about this necessary agreement when we were taught about preceding direct objects? Uhm, no. Decidedly not. When were we taught it? AN ENTIRE YEAR LATER. That's absurd. ABSURD!!

Now, okay, I admit. When I was first presented with the idea that in French, direct object pronouns came before the verb, I definitely left class that day with a headache. It just completely blew my mind. So perhaps that was not the day to bring up this nasty agreement business. But it's ridiculous that they waited a whole year to inform us about it. I mean, I'm pretty sure that in the meantime I wrote sentences that were completely wrong. I definitely remember reading things in French and being confused by all the extra letters. Unfortunately this is one thing I didn't think to look up. :/

Japanese: "-masu" Form Before Dictionary Form
I was teaching myself Japanese for about a year and a half before I was able to get into a class that my school didn't cancel a week into the semester, and I knew there might be some weird little issues as I adjusted to the way my classmates had been learning the language during the time I was unable to join them. The only one I really remember (other than the fact that I was way ahead of everyone, oh man it was ridiculous - I was in Japanese 11 in the same classroom at the same time as the tiny Japanese 12 class, and on occasion they would lean across the aisle to ask me for help), though, is that every verb my classmates had been taught, they had been taught in the "-masu" form. My guess is that this was done because "-masu" form is more polite than dictionary form, but my opinion is that it's ridiculous. Two years into their Japanese studies and these guys can't even properly look up a verb in the dictionary?? And now they're being taught how to convert verbs from "-masu" form to dictionary form?? That's the most backwards thing I've ever heard!! Students in the Romance languages have to get used to conjugating ALL VERBS ALL THE TIME, so I don't know why our teachers felt it necessary to hide even the existence of the dictionary form from their students for two whole years. I mean, honestly.

(And let's ignore for the moment the many issues I have with the teaching of kanji. You just ... don't want to go there.)

IN CONCLUSION, were I to ever become a high school language teacher, I believe I would have a little speech to give on the first day of each of my classes, and it might go a little something like this. Learning a language is hard work. You'll memorize a lot. You'll practice a lot. You'll fill page after page with verb conjugations and kanji practice. And still you won't understand everything. You'll make millions of mistakes. You'll leave class sometimes with a headache. And I'm not going to dumb it down for you. Because learning a language is hard work. But it's never impossible, and it can be one of the most awesome and fascinating and rewarding things you ever do.

I daresay I would be the least popular teacher at my school. xD;

ahahaha YES I have been feeling like quite the language major lately, despite the fact that I'm not actually taking any language classes this semester ... ? xDDDD!

Comments

[homodachi.livejournal.com]

The teaching of the -masu form first really sticks in my craw. I once nearly brought a friend to tears when I argued fervently against it. (She taught Japanese to foreigners in Japan and, unbeknownst to me, had the complete opposite viewpoint. Yes, I felt like an ass and changed the subject immediately.)

The one lucid argument I saw in favor of masu-first stated that it was to protect foreigners from Japanese people prejudging them by their manner of speaking when they're beginning their language study, especially if they have to talk to authority figures like school principals and cops. (Um, I guess that's a really vague description of what was a multi-page essay, but maybe I'll translate it when my boxes arrive from Japan.)

[arisha.livejournal.com]

I'm glad to hear someone agrees with me! :D (And, aha, I argued rather angrily about the teaching of high school math the first time I met the math teacher who is now my cousin's wife. Yet somehow we still get along!)

it was to protect foreigners from Japanese people prejudging them by their manner of speaking when they're beginning their language study

I can understand that, although it still seems bizarre to me to ignore dictionary form entirely. (And regarding my high school classmates, I doubt many of them ever used Japanese outside of the classroom, although realizing that actually makes me kind of sad.)

a multi-page essay, but maybe I'll translate it

For what it's worth, I would read it! :D

[aurora-lime.livejournal.com]

I don't remember which way I learned it in highschool, the -masu, that is. I remember learning dictionary form pretty early, but maybe I'm going loony-bins. were we in the same class?

"I was teaching myself Japanese for about a year and a half before I was able to get into a class that my school didn't cancel a week into the semester, " I remember that, man, that sucked. I had to take japanese 11/12 at camosun, instead of moving forward. And then, again, more 100 level japanese once I got to uvic. You'd think after 5 years of study, I'd be actually past 200 level.

I've thought about continuing japanese study, and I eventually did well enough in 249 to take 311, but I didn't. Probbaly because i was so sick of Japanese for breakfast, lunch and dinner at that time that I wanted a break from feeling like I had no idea what I was talking about.

[arisha.livejournal.com]

We were in the same class just for Japanese 11, so it's true I don't know exactly what was taught in Japanese 9 and 10. But I definitely remember in Japanese 11 having to study how to turn verbs from "-masu" into dictionary form. And there was that song that went with it!! D: Or wait, the song was for turning "-masu" form into "-te" form, which in a way is slightly better and in a way is even weirder ... ???

I admit I was pretty lucky with the ways things worked out for me. I studied on my own starting like halfway through ninth grade, then I got into Japanese 11E which was cancelled a week in (but it's only because of this that I started taking Spanish xD funny how things work out), then the next year I got into Japanese 11 and loved it despite the quirks of its teachings, then there was no Japanese 12 but I studied on my own and wrote the provincial anyway (which is its own hilarious story) ... and then yeah, entered into Japa150 at UVic. xD; BUT I LOVED THAT CLASS so I wasn't too bothered that I was still in first year.

MAN I was honestly sad when I discovered you weren't taking Japanese anymore. D: Well, to be honest I started enjoying the classes less the higher the level, but-- but-- still!! :P

[aurora-lime.livejournal.com]

hey now, didn't we have a few days of japanese 12? I dind't even realise there was an 11E.

perhaps it was the 3 days that I had of english lit, where we read the first few pages of King Lear (am I spelling that right?).


You know what I didn't learn until 3rd year linguistics that would have made learning japanese particles SO MUCH EASIER. Case markings. for example the ongoing struggle of wa/ga and ni/de, and so forth (I can hardly remember them all... ) giving each particle a case marking, such a dative, generative or nomnative made everything so much clearer. I wish that we took just a few days to learn basic case markings and what they meant as far as japanese particles went. (instead of considering/translating them as english prepositions like in, on, for, etc. because this just doesn't do them enough justice)

[arisha.livejournal.com]

I don't remember ever having a Japanese 12 class ... but for a time wasn't it all confusing and there was an option to sign up for it that was kinda hidden and the number kept changing and everyone was confused? ... Uh, maybe I'm making this up. D:

I dind't even realise there was an 11E.

It would've been when you were in Japanese 10, and the teacher wasn't actually a Japanese teacher but was like an art teacher that had gone on JET for a year? And there were like five of us in the class who were in 11E and the rest of you were in 10 all in the same classroom at the same time but then 11E got cancelled because the teacher couldn't handle teaching two classes at the same time (and lol who could blame him)? And so I went into Spanish 11E instead. :D Well I might have the number wrong, but it was something like "11E," it was the class where they taught the content from Japanese (or Spanish) 9 and 10 all in one semester ...

King Lear (am I spelling that right?)

aha yes I believe you are. xD

I wish that we took just a few days to learn basic case markings and what they meant as far as japanese particles went.

Man, I wonder!! That would definitely be an interesting experiment. My first reaction when I read your comment was to remember all the students in high school language classes who don't actually care about language, and I'm pretty sure it would all be 100% lost on them ... but for the people who were paying attention, I wonder if it would work??

I mean I don't think it would necessarily solve everything though. I imagine there'd still be lots of trouble regarding the differences between "wa" and "ga" (but EVERYONE has trouble with those, so).

I didn't actually take the Japanese linguistics class where you learn about case markings ... I only know about them from my one pitiful semester of Ancient Greek. xD;

[aurora-lime.livejournal.com]

I didn't learn them in japanese linguistics either D: I learned them in my Old English class, and then refered to japanese by some data we looked at in my Morphology class.

I know that it would probably be lost on highschool japanese students, but perhaps not so much in univerity? I mean, they're the nature of most germanic languages, and those are taugh in highschools. Maybe it's just claremont? XD (likely...)


I do infact remember that now, the 11E class that was shoved off into a corner. I sat on the other side of the room, so I didn't get to ask you questions, ahhn, so sad.

[lifty.livejournal.com]

I was determined before high school not to forget everything I learned in regards to foreign language, but right now the most I can recall from my year of French was that it was one of my easiest classes ever. 8D; The one thing that was difficult was participating in class, because I grew so nervous when I had to hold a conversation or translate something without checking it against my notes first. I do plan to start back up over the summer, though. I would actually love to attain fluency in multiple languages, but I don't know that I could. D:

[arisha.livejournal.com]

I've found that it's pretty easy to forget what you've learned of a foreign language, but luckily it's also pretty easy to get back once you start reviewing it! :D

The one thing that was difficult was participating in class

Oh, I definitely hear you. D: I'm super shy and though I feel I've been getting over it really well for the most part, in language classes I still am really bad at spontaneously speaking. I get really nervous and if I make a mistake I hate myself for it for like days afterward. But ... IT'S WORTH IT!!

I would actually love to attain fluency in multiple languages, but I don't know that I could.

YOU TOTALLY COULD!!! :D I hope you do start back up over the summer, learning languages is AWESOME!! xD

Bzuh?

[frauleinfrog.livejournal.com]

Man, that would be freakish. I mean, yes we learned masu form, like, right away, but the vocab lists had everything in dictionary form. Man, one of the most confusing things when I first started taking Japanese was how to tell the difference between -ru verbs, and -u verbs that just happen to end in "ru"! How do you even conjugate stuff if you can't take it to dictionary form? *is seriously confused*